Fortunately, the vast majority of humanity experiences war as a spectator. The distance from the reality of noise, danger, hurt, and debris allows for passionate opinions on right and wrong, disgust and despair. But for those living and experiencing the harsh reality, whether as a combatant at the front or an endangered civilian behind the lines, war is ghastly. Being shelled and bombed is not the same as watching it on a screen, however horrifying we may find it; and shelling and bombing civilians is never right, ever.
Ukraine is now in its fourth year of war, and while Trump promised to end it in anything from a day to a hundred days, his overtures and partiality to Russia has produced only ever more intensive attacks against civilians in Ukraine, with the largest waves yet of drones and ballistic missiles aimed at cities, including Kyiv, over successive nights. Nataliya Gumenyuk is well-versed in the duality of spectator and participant of war: a foreign correspondent for many Ukrainian and international outlets before the full-scale invasion, she visited war zones and conflict areas repeatedly. However, as of February 2022, she shifted to explaining the war to both external and Ukrainian audiences through the Public Interest Journalism Lab and documenting human rights breaches and war crimes for the Reckoning Project.
In a deep and passionate discussion with ELN Senior Associate Fellow Ilana Bet-El, Nataliya brings a sense of the reality of being attacked. She explains the importance of documenting war crimes, as well as the necessity of EU membership to Ukraine, in order to officially anchor it to the West. She also presents a vision for the war’s end, unfortunately, one that, as of yet, does not have a date.
This episode was recorded on 28 May 2025
Chapters
- Living with the war in Ukraine
- Could international justice be applied to Russia’s crimes?
- What Trump and Putin achieved?
- Why Ukraine’s accession to the EU is critical?
Mentions
Follow
- Nataliya Gumenyuk LinkedIn Instagram
- Instagram @women_leaders_podcast
- Our partner European Leadership Network social media Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, website
- Ilana Bet-El
Credits
- Production: Florence Ferrando
- Music: Let Good Times Roll, RA from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/ra/let-good-times-roll License code: ZXIIIJUU2ISPZIJT
The European Leadership Network itself as an institution holds no formal policy positions. The opinions articulated above represent the views of the authors rather than the European Leadership Network or its members. The ELN aims to encourage debates that will help develop Europe’s capacity to address the pressing foreign, defence, and security policy challenges of our time, to further its charitable purposes.
Image credit: Florence Ferrando
